Rosemary Bookkeeping Brand Leader Bobby Garland sits down with Aaron Patrick from Ask the Accountant.
Recently, Bobby Garland, Brand Leader for Rosemary Bookkeeping across the UK, featured on Ask the Accountant while visiting the Finance, Accounting and Bookkeeping Show (FAB).
Alongside playing a game of (Not) Top Trumps (see full video), the two dive into discussions of the best ways to capitalise on networking events like FAB, Bobby’s plans for Rosemary, and the evolution of the bookkeeping industry.
In this blog post, we’ve transcribed the highlights of their conversation, but you can watch the full interview here.
(Note: Some quotes have been slightly tweaked for clarity and ease of reading.)
Aaron: Bobby, first of all, tell people who you are, why you’re here and what you want to talk about.
Bobby: “My name is Bobby Garland. I am the Brand Leader for Rosemary Bookkeeping. I’m relatively new to the accounting industry. I’m just a couple of years in, but I have lots of experience working with SMBs on business growth and collaboration plans and things like that.”
And relatively new in this new role as well?
“Yeah, my role at Rosemary Bookkeeping started in January, and it’s a franchise network. I’m the Brand Leader, so I help support the whole network and take it in the direction I think will benefit the whole accounting community.”
So, Bobby, what are you looking forward to on day two of FAB?
“I want to spend a bit more time on the HMRC stand. When we’re looking at things like Making Tax Digital coming into fruition, I feel like everybody’s got over this paranoia of ‘Will it, won’t it?’ We’re in the home run now, they’re sending letters out. I feel like we’re locked in. So, I think it’s their time to shine. Some of their speakers have been really, really good, really engaging. I feel like they’ve brought their A game this year.”
How do you ensure, from any event, that you act on it? What are your key tips?
“Step one is definitely to learn something. I always look at the speakers and pick out a non-negotiable. And then I’ll write something down: just one thing to do the next day. Whether that’s rolling something out to my network of bookkeepers, or going and having a demo booked in.”
“I’ve booked three demos yesterday, just from walking around. You’ve got new players in the game, like Mimo. I was talking to them, and was like, I’m just gonna book a demo. It’s great chatting to them here. But sitting down and having dedicated time is better. If you do it while you are here, you’ll commit to it. My meeting with them is next week, and I’ll attend that and get something from it. My diary next week is jammed, with just demos. I think that’s how you’re gonna get something out of these things: committing to something later date.”
You are in a unique position where you’ve got twenty different bookkeepers, and that’s growing, right? You’ve got X amount of differing pain points to solve. What are the key pain points you are looking to fix?
“Yeah, so one of the things that I think I’m passionate about with the Rosemary Bookkeeping Network is flexibility. Because with new or existing franchise partners, they’re all in different places. You’ve got some who are just one-man operations and have been going for a year. You’ve got others who have been going for 15 years and have employees and a couple of offices, so sometimes there isn’t a one-size-fits-all solution, and if we’re rolling something out across the network, I’ve got to make sure that it’s fit for purpose for everybody”.
“So, I really love something scalable, that can be relatively inexpensive to start with, but is happy to grow. And those sorts of solutions are ones that I keep an eye out for. Because they’ll benefit everybody, and that’s ultimately one of the priorities of my job: servicing and supporting everybody in the network equally.”
I completely understand that you want to be flexible and make sure it’s right for the purpose, but how do you keep on top of that? What’s your pro tip? Because a tech stack, when it’s just one for each category, is hard work. So, trying to keep it on top of all of that, what’s your secret there?
“I’ve sat in a lot of demos the last couple of weeks. Starting in the role in January, that’s something that I’ve prioritised because when I worked at QuickBooks and worked with accountants on software and even before that, working in marketing and business development roles, one of the things that I was always keen on was to be a functional expert.”
“I’m not a bookkeeper. I’ve got no qualifications around that, cards on the table, but I could use QuickBooks. And I felt that that was important when working with my accountants then. And this is no different, working with my Rosemary bookkeepers, I’m not going to be able to deal with the bookkeeping, but it’s important I understand how it works. We’re looking at AML software at the moment, getting under the skin of that, and I love it because I love learning about new stuff, new tech, new everything.”
It’s problem-solving.
“Yeah. I think you get far more out of it if you immerse yourself in it. Sometimes I can go a little down the rabbit hole, but that functional learning is key. I don’t want to just be somebody who’s talking about it. I want to be able to pick it up and show somebody. My aim is that all of my bookkeepers, for example, would be able to use it a million times better than me, but at the starting point, I can explain it and show them.”
“Even though I’m not a bookkeeper. I’m a functional expert to a degree. Don’t trust me to do your books though! [laughs].”
But credit to you, because we’ve done videos and product demos and all sorts together in the past, and one thing I admire about you is that you get your hands dirty, get involved in the product and kick the tires.
You were the first to say, ‘This doesn’t do this, have I missed something here?’ Because you were questioning, am I the problem, or is it the software? And I think that’s something that, in your role, is really important.
“I get a bit passionate because I see something, and it doesn’t quite do what I want it to, and I’m like, ‘Well, why doesn’t it do that? And should it?’ And then you go round in circles, and you’ve got to think about everybody in many different positions. But for me, immersing in it is the only way you’d uncover those issues.”
“And credit to software companies. It is a challenge because they’re not bookkeepers either. So, some of the best innovations come from people in the industry using the software. You can see some of the software created by accountants and bookkeepers, they stand out because they’re using it day-to-day.”
“And I think leveraging that information, whatever software company you are, is essential to success and leveraging the experience so people who will use it every day.”
We all love the big shinies, the big new feature releases. We were talking off air, weren’t we? Apron is releasing the new–
“The new card, yeah.”
We love that. And that’s an amazing thing to celebrate. But actually, some of the best work they’ve done lately is those little, tiny workflow changes, which are game-changing for the people using and relying on it daily.
“The number of times I’ve had a bookkeeper, or an accountant come up to me and they’re like, ‘Oh my God, do you know what my favourite feature is?’ And they say it, and I’m like, ‘Does it do that? Show me.’ And sometimes we miss that, especially those of us who aren’t bookkeepers or accountants, and we need to listen to that sort of feedback, so we know what the priorities are. Otherwise, how else are we going to learn?”
“But that happens all the time. I love it, though, because you learn something new. The best bit is that an accountant or bookkeeper tells me that, and then I go and find another accountant or bookkeeper, and I go, ‘I tell you what, have you seen this?’ And they’re like, ‘No. Oh my God, that’s amazing.’ I’m like,’ Yeah, I found that.’ [laughs]”
So, obviously, you’re passionate about this industry. What do you love most about it?
“I’ve worked in lots of industries. When I’ve done marketing, I worked with SMBs across all different industry verticals. Now that I only work within the accounting industry, the thing I notice is that it’s so collaborative. Everybody gets on, and I think that’s because it’s such a necessary service that there’s obviously competition, but accountants are far more likely to sit down and help each other than ignore each other. If one’s got a problem – and I saw it outside when we were queuing to get in, and one accountant was chatting to another about year end and how busy they were in January and then one’s telling the other like, ‘I’ve done this, you should think about that’ – and I think that’s brilliant.”
“Collaboration and partnership, in my career, are big priorities. I read it the other day, and you must have heard this: ‘If you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together.’ And I love that. That is ingrained in me as a person. And I see that all the time in this industry, above other industries, and I’ve worked in a lot of others.”
And there was a chance that you could have left the industry, and you decided this is the industry you want to stay in. So, that must say something.
“Definitely. And I’ve been dedicated to this industry for, in my eyes, a relatively short period, two or three years now. But I’ve made so many connections and friends. Even just coming here today, the number of people I’ve seen who stopped me to say hello, I’ve really loved keeping those connections going.”
So, that’s what you love about the industry. What would you change about the industry?
“That’s… that’s a tough one. I think pace. I do think that accountants and bookkeepers, rightly so, are relatively risk-averse. And I think that’s fair to say, and that’s not a detriment to any of them, but they should be. I’d want my accountant to be risk-averse.”
“But I think sometimes when it comes to things like Making Tax Digital for income tax coming in and new software and efficiencies, we can err strongly on the side of caution. And I’m not saying throw the baby out with the bath water, but it would be good if we had more risk-takers, to give it a go and see it through. But it’s their business, so I get it. So many accountants are self-made, so I understand why they don’t.”
“In my time at QuickBooks and at Rosemary, working with my franchise partners, I want to be super supportive, so it doesn’t blow up in people’s faces. Nobody wants that. But try those little things, try something new. That’s the one bit of advice.”
Exactly, and it’s that disruptive mentality, isn’t it? Sometimes we feel like we shouldn’t disrupt. But that little bit of disruption won’t stop the whole industry, will it?
“Absolutely. And it doesn’t need to be changing everything.”
Little tiny steps.
“A hundred per cent. If you made a 1% change every day, that adds up. It is tiny, tiny steps. So, yes. That would be the thing. But I think that’s coming.”
“Even in the few years I’ve worked directly in the industry, you see a change. And I think it is a testament to guys like you who lead from the front. And you are seeing more people putting themselves out there, doing podcasts and talking and things like that.”
Sharing the knowledge, right?
“Yeah. Yeah, definitely. So, I think it is happening.”
If we got you a time machine, think about something you are using today. It could be an app, a piece of software, or a gadget. What piece of technology would you love to take back 12 months and say, ‘You should be using this now.’
“Chat GPT, I have doubled down on things like that in the last couple of months, and it has transformed my life. I think it’s such a useful assistant. It’s not replacing anything.”
It’s a brainstorming tool, isn’t it?
“I love, like I said earlier, collaboration and some of my best ideas come when chatting with someone, and they evolve in a conversation. But I work remotely, and the franchise partners I deal with are all over the UK. So, I’m not necessarily with someone every day. I don’t work in an office. So, Chat GPT is really helpful when I’m trying to brainstorm.”
I don’t know if you’ve seen some of the videos we’ve done on the training, but now it’s evolved to watching your screen and being contextualised on your screen, so you’re thinking about the training point of view, you have that app on the screen.
It’s telling you, ‘If I need to reconcile this or I need to do this, or I need to add this transaction,’ it can go, ‘Oh, go up here, click that. See this box here? Make sure you put it in there. No, no. I wouldn’t use that date. And it’s watching you do what you’re doing, giving that constant feedback. It is very, very, very scary, but very, very good.
“It’s terrifying. Don’t think about it too much.”
So, we’ve gone back 12 months, let’s go forward 12. How do you think AI is going to impact the accounting industry?
“I think the more and more it’s integrated, the more it’ll get used. Intuit Assist is a great example of that. You’ve got Jax with Xero, in the accounting world. Once they’re properly there, then I think that will accelerate everything.”
“I am slightly – not worried – excited and terrified of where all this will be in two years. So, it’s exciting times, and I think it’s in addition to your brain. It’s not instead of your brain.”
Well, that’s where we add value as bookkeepers and accountants, right?
“The other thing I think is massive about the accounting industry is that it isn’t about numbers. It’s about people.”
100%.
“It’s a people industry, and nothing’s going to change that. If you could spend more time with people, and AI is doing some of these monotonous things for you, it gives you time to have that coffee with your client that you couldn’t before, or go out to that networking event and meet new clients. Those are the things you want to do. I don’t know about you, but I love spending time with people; the more of that I can do, the better.”
Awesome. So, this is your opportunity. Plug, plug and plug away. And tell the people where they can find you and what you’re all about.
“Rosemary Bookkeeping is a franchise network. I’m the Brand Leader of it. What I’m looking to do with the brand is develop it so that we can partner with accountants. MTD for income tax is coming; accountants are going to need help. And I honestly believe bookkeepers are the answer. Ami Copeland talked about it at Engager Labs, collaboration is key. They’re not in competition with each other, so I’m looking for accountants who are looking for help that the Rosemary Bookkeeping network can help with, and we’re across the whole country.”
“I look after and know them all personally. I’m really excited about that, and hopefully working with some people I already know and maybe some new people as well. I’m really excited to be part of the network.”
It’s been great. Thank you for coming on.
“I really appreciate it. Thank you.”
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